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archiv enfin la fin dal 2007

Zuschüsse vom Staat

Bitte bei den Staatsartikeln immer (content sponsored with taxpayers' money)anfügen. Der Leser hat ein Anrecht zu wissen, was mit seinen Steuergeldern passiert. Hintergrund: die beiden Hauptautoren werden vom Staat fürs Uebersetzen bezahlt. Max vom VErein "Subventiüns to Grisüns"

Was ist eigentlich dein Problem? Sei doch froh, dass der Staat sich für die vierte Sprache einsetzt. Das ist noch lange kein Grund dafür, irgendwelche Sätze in grottenschlechtem Englisch in seriöse Wikipediaartikel einzufügen. Unterlasse solche Aktionen bitte in Zukunft. --Andreas 12:40, 13 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Die reine Wikipedia ist ehrenamtlich. Macht doch in Warschau die üblichen rumansch Bündner Nusstorten Museumsausstellungen oder ähnlich interessante Sachen. Aber gebt zu, dass ihr künstlich belüftet werden müsst. Schreiben könnt ihr, aber bitte ehrlich sagen, dass ihr Profis seit. Danke

Ich bin profis seit immer. Bitte.

Which dialect?

Could someone please tell me which dalect is used in this rumantsch wikipedia: is it Rumantsch Grischun or another one. In fact I about to create a Rusyn Wikipedia, and I have the problem: which norms to choose... It's interesting how a language that also has many dialects functions on Wikipeidia. Thank you for your answers...

Most articles are written in rumantsch grischun. But we can't prohibit anyone to write in his idiom. I think the best will be to begin a new article in this case. Example: "Mustér" written in rumantsch grischun, "Mustér (sursilvan)" written in sursilvan (idiom). Gion-andri 20:40, 26 december 2007 (CET)

Suos-ch

Kann mir jemand sagen, was suos-ch auf Deutsch heisst? Vielen Dank!--83.180.106.34 03:33, 16 december 2007 (CET)

schmutzig, dreckig. Salids Gion-andri 20:14, 26 december 2007 (CET)

Fehlmeldung?

Tagi, 5.Juli 2008: Wikipedia nun auch auf Romanisch - dass es neu ist, ist ja wohl eine Übertreibung, gibt's ja schon länger, oder? 85.0.176.13 12:53, 5 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Ja, das stimmt. Dies zeigt dass die "Vichipedia" an sich schon lange auf romanisch existiert. Neu ist jedoch dass nun (scheinbar) ein wenig Wind in die Sache kommt.

Vichipedia en autras linguas

In "Vichipedia en autras linguas", perque "oc:langue d'oc" e nun "oc:occitan" ? cf. http://rm.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan --Jfblanc 17:43, 19 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Hm, jau na sai er betg. Correct fiss matai occitan? U betg?--Gion 19:28, 23 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Langue d'oc ed occitan èn la medema chaussa. --Andreas 19:57, 23 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Quai è cler. Ma pertgè ch'i ha num tar l'occitan langue d'oc empe da occitan gliez è betg cler. Jau fatsch la midada. Tar il rumantsch na stati er betg scrit lingua rumantscha, mabain rumantsch.--Gion 21:54, 23 fanadur 2008 (CEST)

Il romancio e Diego Abatantuono

Ho da svariati anni una domanda che mi gira per la testa riguardante il romancio. Mi sorse nel mio primo viaggio in Svizzera (1997) in cui mi trovai a leggere varie "cose" nelle 4 lingue elvetiche: banconote, avvisi, libretti etc... A me quella scrittura ricordava molto quello strano modo di parlare dei primi film di Diego Abatantuono, quelli dei fortunati personaggi "terruncielli". Ma Abatantuono in quei film biascicava una specie di romancio maccheronico ? Sinceramente quel "banca naziunala svizra" e poi tutto il resto appresso furono folgoranti e mi fecero nascere quel sospetto. Del resto quel personaggio rappresentava un emigrante pugliese che, in quanto a milanesità, era diventato "più realista del re" e per manifestarla parlava in quel modo. Un linguaggio sinceramente inidentificabile nei vari dialetti e lingue italofoni... Ed anche questo mi diede da pensare che Abatantuono avesse preso una lingua vicina geograficamente alla Lombardia e con influenze ma che, modificandola maccheronicamente, avrebbe potuto accentuare delle vaghe somiglianze con dialetti meridionali mascherati per creare un ibrido appulo-longobardo dell'emigrante ormai identificato nella milanesità... Insomma, Abatantuono parlava un simil-romancio ? Io non ho mai sentito parlare un rumantsch quindi sulla pronuncia non so ipotizzare, ma da quel che ho letto molte cose mi ricordano questa sua "neolingua". Avrà preso ispirazione parziale dal romancio per inventarsi questo slang ? Ne ha mai fatto accenno in qualche intervista ? Insomma, ovviamente Abatantuono non usa parole romance o realmente tali ma l'inflessione sembra quella. Per capirci faccio un esempio: le Sturmtruppen parlavano in italiano, ma era un italiano con inflessione tedesca. Abatantuono fa la stessa cosa coi suoi personaggi da "Attila" a "Tirzan" ?

NB: Spero che nessuno pensi che questo post sia uno sfottò o uno scherzo. La domanda è seria, la curiosità e il dubbio mi rimangono da quasi 12 anni. Spero che qualcuno del Grigioni (o di altro loco) possa delucidarmi, grazie. E buona crescita per numero di articoli anche a voi :-) --87.16.156.150 00:29, 5 favrer 2009 (CET)

PS: Ho scritto questo messaggio in italiano supponendo che la lingua sia conosciuta (dato che il Canton Grigioni, a quanto leggo, è trilingue) e sperando che sia altresì conosciuto Diego Abatantuono - I wrote this message in italian supposing that this language is known (Grischun, as I know, is trilingual) and hoping that in the area the italian actor Diego Abatantuono is known. Otherwise, i could translate my question in english, french or german. Sorry, i don't know "rumantsch", i'm only able to understand almost of it when i read it.

Jau sper ch'jau haja chapì correct tia dumonda. Deplorablamain n'enconusch jau dentant betg l'actur Diego Abatantuono. Uschia na poss jau er betg dir a tai sche quella lingua ch'el discurra en il film è in dals idioms rumantschs u betg. Per pudair giuditgar quai stuess ins pudair guardar il film. I ma displascha ch'jau na poss betg gidar enavant.--Gion 23:42, 14 favrer 2009 (CET)--Gion 23:42, 14 favrer 2009 (CET)

english wikipedia to delete article about romansch wikipedia

en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romansh Wikipedia.

Please add more info and more references to the article en:Romansh Wikipedia. Altenmann 18:19, 22 zercladur 2009 (CEST)

Categorias per las idioms

Perstgisai, jau poss leger ma na betg scriver en rumantsch. Ich möchte gerne folgendes vorschlagen: Ich sehe dass zum Titel der Artikel die auf Surselvisch geschrieben sind, "(sursilvan)" hinzugefügt wird. Ist es vielleicht eine Idee für die fünf Idiomen auch Kategorien zu machen, damit es einfach sei ein Artikel in z.B. Vallader zu finden? --Benne 17:37, 12 october 2009 (CEST)

Es gibt schon eine solche Kategorie für Putèr: Category:Artichels in rumauntsch puter. Ich denke dass es für die Forderung beide des RG als der Idiomen gut ist, wenn es deutlich ist in welchem Idiom ein Artikel geschrieben ist. Allmählich kann dann eine Übersetzung in RG gemacht werden, weil die Ursprüngliche Artikel stehen bleiben. Umgekehrt können artikel in RG auch in die fünf Idiomen Übersetzt werden. Oben im Artikel können dan Verweisungen nach die Artikel in Idiom aufgenommen werden. --Benne 08:54, 13 october 2009 (CEST)

Small request

Hello! I am a Polish wikipedian and I would like to ask you for your help - writing a new article about former Polish President who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983 – Lech Wałęsa. I have looked for his biography in your Wikipedia but without success. Polish Wikipedians will be grateful for your help. Thank you so much in advance! PS you can find the English version of the article here. Best wishes from Poland, Patrol110 23:06, 28 october 2009 (CET)

replacement file @Commons

Would some kind soul please replace File:P_history-lightblue.png with File:P_history_violet.png. The first file is CV and to be deleted at Commons. Thanks. Billinghurst 03:06, 13 mars 2011 (CET)

Rumantsch Wiki as Swiss reference point

Please excuse me for writing in English.

In the context of the Italian Wiki shutdown, which also affected users outside of Italy, including Ticino and Grigioni / Grischun, I sent this message (inter alia) to Wikimedia blog:

"Another idea for a Swiss Wikipedia: would it not be possible, instead of creating a national Wikipedia, to use the EXISTING Rumantsch-language Wiki as the reference point for Swiss users? (Just as Rumantsch is used on Swiss banknotes, etc.) To avoid problems, such as that which today affects Italy, but tomorrow could affect France or Germany, this Wiki would link to full updated copies of it:wiki, fr:wiki and de:wiki located outside of their reference countries, not necessarily in Switzerland (Florida is perfect). Also this would increase world-wide awareness of Rumantsch and I don’t think it would bother the Rumantsch speakers to be seen as the representatives of Switzerland as a whole."

For example, you could put a quick link on your front page to the other Swiss national languages. (And possibly to Alemmannic, Francoprovençal and Lombard).

As for the technical part of my proposal, to create a link to "it:wiki, fr:wiki and de:wiki located outside of their reference countries", I realise that this does not depend on you, but I think it would be useful.

Best wishes for your work. LombardBeige 18:03, 6 october 2011 (CEST)

Ina dumonda

Ciao a tuts! Mì sunt un utilisader e aministradur da la Wikipedia lumbarda (dunca un vost vesin da cà): ma spias da savè brica el Rumancc, però prövi a scriv in d'una maniera ca pudii cumprend anca vui. In questi dì sun dree a fà vegnì i paginn sura i dialet dal Rumancc (Sutsilvan, Sursilvan etc.) pü grand e bei, e par fàl hoo cercaa e cataa föra anca di vegg test dal XIX secul. Cura ma sun miss a trascriv ün da 'sti test, però el m'è vegnüü el dübi ca l'urtugrafia duperada l'era brica quela pü cureta, ma ca la füdess un'urtugrafia italianizzanta. Par quest hoo pensaa ca pudevi dumandàv un agiüt. Se pudarissuv mussàm cume 'l sa scriv curetament, ve 'n saria propi recunussent.
El test in quistiun a l'è quest chì (sota pudii catà anca l'adress da Internet dal qual l'hoo tiraa föra): vöri brica una növa tradüziun, ma sulament la trascriziün cun l'urtugrafia cureta. El test l'è in dal dialet Vallader, in particular quel da la cità da Zernez.

Se vurii dàm un agiüt, pudii scrivem la trascriziun sü la mia pagina da discüssiun ([1]). V'engrazzi sübit par l'agiüt ca ma vurii purtà! Ciao, e a prest!

Eug di dimena, chia nels temps del prüm raig da Ciper, zieva havair tut aint la Terra Sonchia da Gotfried il Bugliun, d'vantet chia üna zarta duonna della Guascogna in pellegrinadi get alla Fossa. Da la tuornand, in Ciper arrivada, da alchiuns schlechts homens grobamaing füt sgiamglada. Da que ella, sainza ingiün cofiört plonschand, s'inpiset da ir a reclamar al raig; ma da alchün la gnit ditta chia ün gnis a perder la fadìa, perqué chia el era da schlaseda vita e uschea poch da bön, chia, na be el vendichaiva la verguognias dals üns con giüstizia, d'inperse sainza fin ad el fattas las sustgnaiva con vituperusa viltat, nel temp chia ogni ün chi havaiva qualche cordöli, quist cont il far qualche spretsch o verguognia ad el fatta sustgnaiva; nel temp dimena chia ogni ün havaiva mal in cuor alchiün, quel cont i, dar alchiün spretsche o verguognia büttaiva oura. La qual chiosa udind la duonna, our spranza della vendecta, per consolaziun da sia lungurella, pigliet havant da vulair morder la misergia dal dit raig; et siand ida criand d'avant et d' schet: "Signur mieu, eug non vegn alla tia preschentscha per spettar vendecta del spretsch chi m'hais stat fat, dinperse, in paiamaint dal qual eug ad giavüsch chia tü am muosast sco chia tü supportast quels, eug incleg chi at sun fats, perqué, chia eug da tai inprendand, possa paziantamaing ils meis comportar. E que sa Dieu, scha eug pudes far, gugent t'ils dunes, gia chia tü est uschea bun purtader".
Il raig, fin alur stat tardif e daschiütel, sco scha el as schdasches dal schön, cumanzand dal spretsch fat a quista duonna, il qual eschamaing vandichiet, rigurusischem perseguitatur dvantet d'ogni ün chi, cunter l'hunur da sia curuna, alchiüna chiosa comettes da quia in avant.
Giovanni Papanti, Parlari Italiani in Certaldo, pagg. 709-710

Eldomm

IW Links auf frrwiki und stqwiki

Hallo Admins,
wir würden uns freuen, wenn von Eurer Hauptseite Interwiki-Links auf Nordfriesisch (Nordfriisk) und Saterfriesisch (Seeltersk) zeigen würden. Danke! --Murma174 (talk) 08:29, 13 matg 2012 (CEST)

[P.S.] Und dann fiel mir auf, dass es einen Link auf Obersorbisch gibt, aber keinen auf Niedersorbisch. --Murma174 (talk) 08:34, 13 matg 2012 (CEST)

Предлагается начала года

Здравствуйте пользователи Википедии в ретороманский!

В последние недели мы собираемся превзойти Википедии на испанском языке, и мы будем праздновать наше, теперь, млн. штук! Мы не просим вас подготовить к празднику, действительно, но на этот раз некоторые наши писатели решили помочь нам посещать энциклопедий больше "нуждающихся". Да, даже энциклопедию вашего сможете получать, по их просьбе, одна из наших писателей, конечно, уже подготовлены для ваших нужд, так будет вашим языком сердца (надеюсь) и, если это возможно, он начнет бот умеет писать очень быстро (это будет ваша задача, чтобы исследовать различные страницы) различных предметов. Я очень надеюсь, что вы примете это предложение, так что вики становится одним из самых важных, но менее значимых уровней.

До скорой встречи! Саша

Dialect policy on Romansh Wiki

Hello! I am visiting from the Rusyn Wikipedia. Rusyn is also a language with several varieties (the language policy was actually inspired by Romansch). Rusyn Wiki followed other Wikipedias in that situation in theory, but the actual policies were never laid out. If you have the time to respond, I’d like to learn more about your approach. I already found some information myself, but I'll mention that too in case you have anything to add. Thank you very much in advance!

Do you have policies for language use on Wikipedia written down?
Rumantsch Grischun seems to be the "default" variety here. Is Wikipedia interface, or the Wikipedia: namespace articles also in Rumantsch Grischun?
What varieties are Romansh contributors typically proficient in? How does one edit an article written in a different dialect?
I noticed you sometimes have parallel article versions in different articles (I am assuming mixing varieties is not allowed). Does this also apply to templates?
Is your approach to local topics any different (e.g. prioritising the local variety)?
At present, how often do people contribute edits in different varieties?
From what I know, all Romansch varieties are standardised - I’m guessing this also means that article text has to observe its corresponding standard.

Thank you and all the best. Engelseziekte (talk) 03:00, 12 Settember 2020 (CEST)

Hello @Engelseziekte and thanks for stopping by for some inspiration. I've seen that you or somebody from your community left a message here before. I hope you don't mind if I answer your questions it a different order. The answers to #7 (about Romansh and its varieties) and #2 (about Rumantsch Grischun) will give you an idea why we're doing what we're doing on the Romansh Wikipedia.

ad 7) Romansh is spoken in a very "compact" area compared to Rusyn. The whole Romansh-speaking area is contained within one administrative division--the Swiss Canton of Graubünden, also called the Grisons in English. Romansh basically breaks down into 5 dialect groups, each of which with its own written standard. Both the dialect groups and their written standards are often referred to as idioms with the latter sometimes called written idioms for clarity. Mutual intelligibility is relatively high, especially in writing or when speakers put in some effort. (Though, people from different areas may opt to use Swiss German--the dominant and majority language of the area--for different reasons.)

A little more detail and historical background, if you're interested
The borders of the written idioms don't always match the dialect borders. The region of Il Plaun, for example, traditionally uses sursilvan as its written idiom while the dialects spoken there are technically sutsilvan. This even shows in the name of this region which would be spelled Il Plàn in sutsilvan. The town of Bravuogn uses putèr as its written variety while its traditional dialect is part of the surmiran group. Such cases are often due to the Reformation of the Church and from where the new faith was introduced into the area. The Reformation played an important role in the Grisons (and Switzerland as a whole) and is considered the event that prompted the Romansh people to start writing in their language. There's hardly any writing before that era. It's also--in my opinion--one of the reasons for the "fragmentation" of Romansh, i.e. the existence of regional written standards, as the early authors created religious texts that people in their area could understand. Some of the regions in this situtation, or regions whose dialects differ considerabely from their written idiom, have developed their own dialect literature or poetry. A few, like the bargunsegner dialect of Bravuogn, even developed an (inofficial) quasi-standard with a dictionary and grammar but they aren't taught in schools. Some people would probably oppose allowing these in Wikipedia. We currently have one page in one such "standardised" dialect, rumantsch da Vaz, which is about the dialect of the area of Vaz and written in that dialect. It was originally posted on the Germany Wikipedia and tried to save it from going lost.

ad 2) and the second part of 4) Rumantsch Grischun (RG) is an umbrelly variety on top of the regional written idioms. It was created in 1982 to be used mainly as a written language, and is used in material that is aimed at the entire Romansh community. This includes government publications, supra-regional articles in the only daily Romansh newspaper and many institutional websites. There were some schools which taught this variety but many have returned to their local idiom since. While it did develop a strong presence, there's also a very strong oppisition, especially against its use in schools. This reflects perfectly in its use on the Romansh radio: while the news are read in Rumantsch Grischun, all other content (even scripted shows, like long-form reports, comedies and radioplays) are in one or several of the local varieties. Their website is in RG. This should help explain why the Wikipedia interface, Wikipedia: pages and templates are written in this variety. The old main page had versions in all written varieties and I might try to bring it back if I can procure translations.

ad 1), 3), 6) and the first part of 4) No, we never wrote down a language policy. There seems to be a concesus among contributors which Gion-andri mentioned further up on this page: [W]e can't prohibit anyone to write in his idiom. Most schools teach their local written idiom, so that's the only thing many people are able to write. Like I mentioned above, some schools have adopted Rumantsch Grischun and many have dropped it again in favour of the local idiom. There are courses in Rumantsch Grischun, especially for teachers, employees of the Cantonal government and people who work in the media. These are the people who are most likely to be proficient in it. So, how does one edit an article in a different idiom? Since there is no policy, I have observed different approaches. If the article is very short and you want to expand it, you can change the existing bits (which you're likely to do anyway). Then there have also been one-sentence sub-stubs in RG to which people just added in their idiom. I think in one such instance I changed the lead sentence to the idiom as well, just so it reads more smoothely. And if the existing article is not too short but shorter than your version, you can create a parallel version in your idiom or RG. That's how those came to be. I think the first user to label his articles was Swiss79 who probably was inspired by the Lombard Wikipedia where he was also active. We have since iterated from there, first by labeling all the other articles in regional idioms and then by creating the template for multi-idiom pages. Pages which exist only in RG have never been labeled, maybe because that's the variety somebody would expect in such a project.

Still ad 6) Another reason for the absence of a language policy--or pretty much any policy--is that there isn't much of a community here. People come and go. Some drop(ped) the occasional article, some have stayed for months or even years but eventually left. Many of them have contributes in their local idiom. Currently we are at very low point. And then there are people like Terfili, Holder (thanks, guys!) and maybe me, who have stayed and organised the material that the different "generations" of authors created. None of us are native speakers, though, and I'm the only one in this group who writes articles sometimes. (I usually write in RG.) Gion-andri and Rubadur, both natives, also helped out with the housekeeping in the past. And then there's a group of people who apparently receive grants or subsidies for creating material in the language, which apparently includes translating longer articles from the German-language Wikipedia. They also write in RG.

And finally ad 5) Since there is no language policy, there's also no co-ordinated approach to local topics. But from what I wrote above, you can see that it oftentimes comes naturally since people are taught to write in the regional idiom. But I'm definitely a fan of this idea; it allows the reader to "experience" the place they read about in way that's impossible to recreate in languageas such as English or German (which absolutely do show regional variety in their respective written standards). For that reason I wrote the artilce on the town of Maton in sutsilvan. (And also because it will be hard to find authors who could contribute in sutsilvan, as there aren't many speakers of it left.)

Sorry if this got a little lengthy. I hope some of it will be of use to you and your community. All the best to all of you on rue as well. Hope to see you around again. --Andreas (talk) 23:22, 12 Settember 2020 (CEST)

Btw, if I were to write an article about Rusyn, would you mind lending me a hand? The articles on Rusyn in other Wikipedias seem a little ... lacking.

Thanks for your response @Andreas! I really appreciate all the details, it is very fascinating. Always happy to help with the prospective article on Rusyn. Engelseziekte (talk) 00:31, 13 Settember 2020 (CEST)

Hi Engelseziekte,

Andreas already answered most things pretty well, but I'll add a few thoughts.

As he mentioned, there is no formal policy, but in practice all 6 written standards are accepted. The vast majority of content is written in Rumantsch Grischun however. The interface is completely in Rumantsch Grischun (RG). Well, actually a lot of it is in English, because many messages are not translated. As far as I know, all templates are also in RG. But I don't think there would be a problem with somebody making for example, a Sursilvan version to use in Sursilvan articles.

The reason that most content is written in RG is that most longer articles, as Andreas mentioned, appear to have been done by editors who are somehow subsidized for their work. Since RG is the only variety used by the government and the variety favored by the Lia Rumantscha, their content is naturally in Rumantsch Grischun too. It's hard to know for sure however, since these mysterious editors rarely react or reply to any comment or messages. That is also why there is no real active community here, since these users simply create lots of (good) content without interacting or participating in discussions. I once wrote to each of these users individually in order to get some comments on this discussion, and there was zero response. Most native Romansh speakers learn a regional standard at school and are proficient in that, but unfortunately few of them ever find their way here. The only one I can think of from the past few years is Utilisader:Cayne_Wolf. Maybe he has some thoughts to add here as well :)

As Andreas mentioned, for a few years the main page was available in Rumantsch Grischun as well as the 5 regional standards. You can see this in this old page version. Unlike on the Alemannic Wikipedia, Rumantsch Grischun was always the default, it did not change week-by-week. Part of the motivation to do this was because most native Romansh speakers are proficient in their regional written standard, and having those regional varieties featured prominently on the main page might make them realize that this Wikipedia is not written only in RG. I once tried to convince a Romansh friend of mine to write here, but she was discouraged by the fact that almost everything is in RG, and she can only write in Sursilvan.

And finally one note on 7). Yes, articles should observe the formal rules of the variety they are written in. I guess if someone were to write in a non-standardized local dialect, we would probably also tolerate that. However, quite a few articles have over the years been written by people who are not really competent in Romansh (or even who are just completely guessing). I usually try to correct things as good as I can, or just delete it if the mistakes are too serious. But a lot of this content is still around. You can read more about this here. --Terfili (talk) 16:50, 16 Settember 2020 (CEST)

Übersetzungstool "Textshuttle"

Hallo miteinander

Gemäss dieser Mittelung gibt es ein neues KI-basiertes Übersetzungstool namens Textshuttle, das von und nach Rätoromanisch übersetzen kann - ein weltweites Novum. Ich habe es mit Meldungen von RTR getestet und die Ergebnisse sehen durchaus brauchbar aus. Könntet ihr euch vorstellen, darauf zurückzugreifen, um vermehrt Artikel in anderen Landessprachen in die Rumantsch-Wikipedia zu übertragen? Voyager (talk) 20:55, 10 matg 2023 (CEST)

Hallo Voyager. Ich vermute mal, auch bei einem brauchbaren Übersetzungstool bräuchte es noch einen Mensch, der das korrekturliest. Leider lässt sich hier kaum noch ein rätoromanischer Muttersprachler blicken, und es gibt auch so schon einen Haufen Artikel, die vor Jahren von halb-kompetenten bis fortgeschrittenen Romanischlernern geschrieben wurden und nie korrigiert wurden. Also ausser wenn da ein Muttersprachler auftaucht und sich darum kümmert, würde es mir bei der Vorstellung grausen, wenn jetzt auch noch Maschinenübersetzungen dazukommen...--Terfili (talk) 22:13, 14 matg 2023 (CEST)